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	<title>Comments on: MP3 poor format for podcast monetization</title>
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	<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/</link>
	<description>greg yardley on online product management</description>
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		<title>By: willc2</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-357</link>
		<dc:creator>willc2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 05:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-357</guid>
		<description>I listen to podcasts.

I don&#039;t care to be tracked whenever I play something on my iPod.

It&#039;s creepy, like someone reading over my shoulder.

MP3 works fine for me, so why would I switch.

I can email it to a friend, or send a link to it. Anybody can play it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I listen to podcasts.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care to be tracked whenever I play something on my iPod.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s creepy, like someone reading over my shoulder.</p>
<p>MP3 works fine for me, so why would I switch.</p>
<p>I can email it to a friend, or send a link to it. Anybody can play it.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2005 02:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-356</guid>
		<description>Tim - clearly anyone who does not want to sell their work or sell inband advertising with nominal statistics can live within the current system. Why does that matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; clearly anyone who does not want to sell their work or sell inband advertising with nominal statistics can live within the current system. Why does that matter?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-355</guid>
		<description>Why can&#039;t mp3 files use embedded tags to indicate to the player that it should accumulate a &quot;listen count&quot;, and have it talk-back to some server when it&#039;s next online (or sync&#039;d or whatever)?

Sure, since the format is completely open, some tech-types could easily rip out the listen-count-tags, but so what?  That&#039;s hardly gonna be a majority...

After all, this isn&#039;t really a *format* problem, but a *platform* problem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why can&#8217;t mp3 files use embedded tags to indicate to the player that it should accumulate a &#8220;listen count&#8221;, and have it talk-back to some server when it&#8217;s next online (or sync&#8217;d or whatever)?</p>
<p>Sure, since the format is completely open, some tech-types could easily rip out the listen-count-tags, but so what?  That&#8217;s hardly gonna be a majority&#8230;</p>
<p>After all, this isn&#8217;t really a *format* problem, but a *platform* problem&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-354</guid>
		<description>in the post above, 3rd line &quot;not&quot; should say &quot;now&quot; - oops!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in the post above, 3rd line &#8220;not&#8221; should say &#8220;now&#8221; &#8211; oops!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-353</guid>
		<description>Hmm I think you missed the point slightly - I podcast *because* it&#039;s not DRM and it&#039;s unsellable  - and I know of quite a few people who feel the same. We pioneers built the market that commercial entities are not trying to exploit - the reason that podcasts even existed other than Dave&#039;s or Adam&#039;s is the ease of entry, the open source nature and popularity of the MP3 format made it attractive to amateur indie podcasters.

We built this city...and not just on rock n&#039; roll ;-)

Closed systems usually fail in the end - users will find a way to break out or go elsewhere frustrated...unless it&#039;s a monopoly. I think building sch things into it at the start would have been a barrier to entry for the early adopters - you&#039;d not have gotten the Dawn and Drews or Madges or Bicyclemarks - just re-fried old media...really this needs a new approach, the old advertising media model is the one that&#039;s outdated and wrong, not podcasting.

It would be cool to know how many plays you have tho - I agree as podcaster that would be nice to know, as long as it&#039;s open source and transparent. But maybe that could be built in the MP3 header and player? Ultimately tho, you&#039;ll always have unconnected devices that won&#039;t tell you who played what - most players are not connected via Wifi or mobile networks...if they were, you could use something like Audioscrobbler but it&#039;d have to be in every player - either a sneaky Sony style DRM or open source and thus optional? Hmm...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm I think you missed the point slightly &#8211; I podcast *because* it&#8217;s not DRM and it&#8217;s unsellable  &#8211; and I know of quite a few people who feel the same. We pioneers built the market that commercial entities are not trying to exploit &#8211; the reason that podcasts even existed other than Dave&#8217;s or Adam&#8217;s is the ease of entry, the open source nature and popularity of the MP3 format made it attractive to amateur indie podcasters.</p>
<p>We built this city&#8230;and not just on rock n&#8217; roll <img src='http://yardley.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Closed systems usually fail in the end &#8211; users will find a way to break out or go elsewhere frustrated&#8230;unless it&#8217;s a monopoly. I think building sch things into it at the start would have been a barrier to entry for the early adopters &#8211; you&#8217;d not have gotten the Dawn and Drews or Madges or Bicyclemarks &#8211; just re-fried old media&#8230;really this needs a new approach, the old advertising media model is the one that&#8217;s outdated and wrong, not podcasting.</p>
<p>It would be cool to know how many plays you have tho &#8211; I agree as podcaster that would be nice to know, as long as it&#8217;s open source and transparent. But maybe that could be built in the MP3 header and player? Ultimately tho, you&#8217;ll always have unconnected devices that won&#8217;t tell you who played what &#8211; most players are not connected via Wifi or mobile networks&#8230;if they were, you could use something like Audioscrobbler but it&#8217;d have to be in every player &#8211; either a sneaky Sony style DRM or open source and thus optional? Hmm&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Cashmore</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Cashmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 14:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-352</guid>
		<description>Greg, I completely agree with you.  This is the kind of thing I was looking for when I posted this over the weekend:

http://mashable.com/2005/11/13/does-podcasting-need-better-measurement/

Om Malik said that we don&#039;t need Audible when Fruitcast will do - completely missing the point that pay-per-download is an easily gamed metric and you can&#039;t study what happened after the download.  By the same token, though, I think the systems which solve this problem should be as open as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, I completely agree with you.  This is the kind of thing I was looking for when I posted this over the weekend:</p>
<p><a href="http://mashable.com/2005/11/13/does-podcasting-need-better-measurement/" rel="nofollow">http://mashable.com/2005/11/13/does-podcasting-need-better-measurement/</a></p>
<p>Om Malik said that we don&#8217;t need Audible when Fruitcast will do &#8211; completely missing the point that pay-per-download is an easily gamed metric and you can&#8217;t study what happened after the download.  By the same token, though, I think the systems which solve this problem should be as open as possible.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Matthew Gertner</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2005/11/14/mp3-poor-format-for-podcast-monetization/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Gertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 09:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=174#comment-351</guid>
		<description>Greg,

You totally failed to convince me that MP3 is in some way incompatible with either the subscription/pay-per-download or advertising model.

As far as advertising is concerned: consider broadcast TV/radio and AdWords/AdSense. In the first case, there is an auditing process that is statistical and based on very loosy-goosy metrics (how many TVs with Nielsen boxes are on and at any given time). No reason why this couldn&#039;t work for MP3s. In terms of clickthroughs, there isn&#039;t a direct equivalent but you could use promotional codes (mention &quot;ademporium.com&quot; for a 20% discount) to track response.

I was equally baffled by your assertion that DRM is necessary to monetize MP3 through non-advertising means. The jury&#039;s out on this, of course, but I&#039;ve yet to see any serious attempt to offer mainstream media for sale sans DRM, so we have no way of saying what effect it would have. Personally I believe iTunes, for example, would sell considerably more and make considerably more money if they didn&#039;t use DRM. Who can prove me wrong?

Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg,</p>
<p>You totally failed to convince me that MP3 is in some way incompatible with either the subscription/pay-per-download or advertising model.</p>
<p>As far as advertising is concerned: consider broadcast TV/radio and AdWords/AdSense. In the first case, there is an auditing process that is statistical and based on very loosy-goosy metrics (how many TVs with Nielsen boxes are on and at any given time). No reason why this couldn&#8217;t work for MP3s. In terms of clickthroughs, there isn&#8217;t a direct equivalent but you could use promotional codes (mention &#8220;ademporium.com&#8221; for a 20% discount) to track response.</p>
<p>I was equally baffled by your assertion that DRM is necessary to monetize MP3 through non-advertising means. The jury&#8217;s out on this, of course, but I&#8217;ve yet to see any serious attempt to offer mainstream media for sale sans DRM, so we have no way of saying what effect it would have. Personally I believe iTunes, for example, would sell considerably more and make considerably more money if they didn&#8217;t use DRM. Who can prove me wrong?</p>
<p>Matt</p>
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