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	<title>Comments on: Second Life is like shoving pins in my eyes</title>
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	<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/</link>
	<description>greg yardley on online product management</description>
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		<title>By: Lorelei Mission</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-1935</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei Mission</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 17:51:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-1935</guid>
		<description>SL&#039;s first use is as a chat world.  Like IRC.  People who join worlds in order to do &quot;quests&quot; or &quot;combat&quot; get frustrated fast in SL, because they don&#039;t know how to find the SL combat areas, and they don&#039;t know how to set their own goals.
When visiting SL for the first time, think of it as a chatroom, instead of another venue for shooting things.  Next step up from that is deciding what you want to use the platform for.  I first used it for chat/social.  Then I used it for visual exploration (waterfalls, forests, caves, graveyards, zen gardens etc).  Then I used it for building (creating my own toys, houses, neighborhoods, cities).  These days I mostly use it for commercial purposes (running stores, malls, selling products).
When people write in forums that they tried SL and it was boring, it always reminds me of my mom.  When we were little kids and would whine about being bored (in spite of being in a houseful of toys), Mom would say &quot;this world isn&#039;t boring -- YOU&#039;re being boring.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SL&#8217;s first use is as a chat world.  Like IRC.  People who join worlds in order to do &#8220;quests&#8221; or &#8220;combat&#8221; get frustrated fast in SL, because they don&#8217;t know how to find the SL combat areas, and they don&#8217;t know how to set their own goals.<br />
When visiting SL for the first time, think of it as a chatroom, instead of another venue for shooting things.  Next step up from that is deciding what you want to use the platform for.  I first used it for chat/social.  Then I used it for visual exploration (waterfalls, forests, caves, graveyards, zen gardens etc).  Then I used it for building (creating my own toys, houses, neighborhoods, cities).  These days I mostly use it for commercial purposes (running stores, malls, selling products).<br />
When people write in forums that they tried SL and it was boring, it always reminds me of my mom.  When we were little kids and would whine about being bored (in spite of being in a houseful of toys), Mom would say &#8220;this world isn&#8217;t boring &#8212; YOU&#8217;re being boring.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Morgue</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-1650</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-1650</guid>
		<description>I did the same thing that you did. Flew around for a bit, then got bored and left. I really don&#039;t get the point either, although I do enjoy making Garrett&#039;s outfit and putting it on a girl^^.
That and it takes far too long for me to build up any kind of cash, so I don&#039;t even bother anymore.
Well, back to my little hidey-hole to play video games...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did the same thing that you did. Flew around for a bit, then got bored and left. I really don&#8217;t get the point either, although I do enjoy making Garrett&#8217;s outfit and putting it on a girl^^.<br />
That and it takes far too long for me to build up any kind of cash, so I don&#8217;t even bother anymore.<br />
Well, back to my little hidey-hole to play video games&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-615</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-615</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a visiter in the Second Life world and I&#039;m really hoping to do some building in the future. That&#039;s what the point is for me. I want a place to test out my design skills. I&#039;m not that impressed with the atmosphere so far. It is all junked up in most places. I wish there was a Second Life tour guide or some kind of review of places site. I have wasted a lot of time flying around looking for good stuff. You have to give Linden Labs credit for the free memberships. If you want to look at their site just get a new account. It is really easy to set up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a visiter in the Second Life world and I&#8217;m really hoping to do some building in the future. That&#8217;s what the point is for me. I want a place to test out my design skills. I&#8217;m not that impressed with the atmosphere so far. It is all junked up in most places. I wish there was a Second Life tour guide or some kind of review of places site. I have wasted a lot of time flying around looking for good stuff. You have to give Linden Labs credit for the free memberships. If you want to look at their site just get a new account. It is really easy to set up.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cortez</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-614</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cortez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2006 06:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-614</guid>
		<description>&quot;dwell&quot; is pretty straight forward.

They make money from subscribers.  So they want more subscribers.  If people build places in the game where people congregate, have a good time, and tell other people that they have to play SL so they can go to this &quot;place&quot; -- then more people will sign up for an account.

So it would seem to me, that a good bussiness model would be to set aside a percentage of the monthly subscription fees to encourage people to build &quot;destination&quot; locations in the game.  Real world cities do something similiar by providing city funding, or low interest loans to bussinesses that help increase tourest spending.

So if they set aside %2 of the monthly subscription fees (say $10,000 USD for arguments sake.)  And you&#039;ve got 140K users, that each spend a 50hrs online (on average) in a month, for 7,000,000 user hours.  A way of reasonably rewarding people that build destination properties, would be if your property had 10,000 user hours this month you would get .14% of the $10,000 dwell budget (or $14USD / L$4,000)

Now I&#039;m just guessing a lot of numbers there, but both the concept and the potential reward for both Linden and Users is straight forward.

Good Destination == More Subscribers
Good Destination == $USD for users creating those locations</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;dwell&#8221; is pretty straight forward.</p>
<p>They make money from subscribers.  So they want more subscribers.  If people build places in the game where people congregate, have a good time, and tell other people that they have to play SL so they can go to this &#8220;place&#8221; &#8212; then more people will sign up for an account.</p>
<p>So it would seem to me, that a good bussiness model would be to set aside a percentage of the monthly subscription fees to encourage people to build &#8220;destination&#8221; locations in the game.  Real world cities do something similiar by providing city funding, or low interest loans to bussinesses that help increase tourest spending.</p>
<p>So if they set aside %2 of the monthly subscription fees (say $10,000 USD for arguments sake.)  And you&#8217;ve got 140K users, that each spend a 50hrs online (on average) in a month, for 7,000,000 user hours.  A way of reasonably rewarding people that build destination properties, would be if your property had 10,000 user hours this month you would get .14% of the $10,000 dwell budget (or $14USD / L$4,000)</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m just guessing a lot of numbers there, but both the concept and the potential reward for both Linden and Users is straight forward.</p>
<p>Good Destination == More Subscribers<br />
Good Destination == $USD for users creating those locations</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Yardley</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-613</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Yardley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-613</guid>
		<description>Hey, I don&#039;t mind active commenters.

The economics forum at Second Life sounds interesting enough that I may have to break down and harrass them for my last name.

Hard to judge what&#039;s got the most effect on the Linden.  The whole concept of &#039;dwell&#039; sounds a little iffy to me.

But yeah, if I were making a living off of Second Life, maintaining the value of the currency would be my top priority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I don&#8217;t mind active commenters.</p>
<p>The economics forum at Second Life sounds interesting enough that I may have to break down and harrass them for my last name.</p>
<p>Hard to judge what&#8217;s got the most effect on the Linden.  The whole concept of &#8216;dwell&#8217; sounds a little iffy to me.</p>
<p>But yeah, if I were making a living off of Second Life, maintaining the value of the currency would be my top priority.</p>
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		<title>By: TD Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator>TD Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-612</guid>
		<description>Ok, my last post on this and then I&#039;ll shut up in the oomments here (more on our VTOR blog). Seems like I misread the graph data, my bad, the $L has in fact depreciated somewhet in the last 30 days. $1USD would buy $270L a month ago. Today it will buy $281L, so it has gotten a little worse.

Since that basic referral change was initiated a week ago, it will be interesting to see if that value goes back the other way. I think if you add that plus the developer incentives going away, you&#039;ll end up with a positive impact on the $Linden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, my last post on this and then I&#8217;ll shut up in the oomments here (more on our VTOR blog). Seems like I misread the graph data, my bad, the $L has in fact depreciated somewhet in the last 30 days. $1USD would buy $270L a month ago. Today it will buy $281L, so it has gotten a little worse.</p>
<p>Since that basic referral change was initiated a week ago, it will be interesting to see if that value goes back the other way. I think if you add that plus the developer incentives going away, you&#8217;ll end up with a positive impact on the $Linden.</p>
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		<title>By: TD Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-611</link>
		<dc:creator>TD Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-611</guid>
		<description>Oops again. Just realized that you will need your SL login for that forum link too :(

Here is the relevant text of their message quote from Jeska Linden: &quot;Effective today [1/27/2006 12:21 PST], we will be eliminating the $L1000 bonus for Basic Referrals.

The reasoning behind this move is twofold:

1. With the move to a Free model and the elimination of the credit card requirement, it has become increasingly difficult to justify economically

2. There has been a profusion of Referral-farming in recent weeks and we wish to eliminate the negative effect this may have on the L$ market value.&quot;;

There is an entire forum area (powered by vBulletin) which deals with economics. Some pretty wild postings happen there. Some SL Residents are very passionate about maintaining the integrity of the $L.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops again. Just realized that you will need your SL login for that forum link too <img src='http://yardley.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Here is the relevant text of their message quote from Jeska Linden: &#8220;Effective today [1/27/2006 12:21 PST], we will be eliminating the $L1000 bonus for Basic Referrals.</p>
<p>The reasoning behind this move is twofold:</p>
<p>1. With the move to a Free model and the elimination of the credit card requirement, it has become increasingly difficult to justify economically</p>
<p>2. There has been a profusion of Referral-farming in recent weeks and we wish to eliminate the negative effect this may have on the L$ market value.&#8221;;</p>
<p>There is an entire forum area (powered by vBulletin) which deals with economics. Some pretty wild postings happen there. Some SL Residents are very passionate about maintaining the integrity of the $L.</p>
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		<title>By: TD Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-610</link>
		<dc:creator>TD Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-610</guid>
		<description>Yes your theory is correct, but there are definitely mitigating factors. For example, they recently eliminated referral fees for free (AKA basic) members (they used to give $1,000L), see here: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=84713

So now the only referral fees you get paid on are new *paid* members, which is probably how it should have been to begin with anyway. Too easy to game the system with extra free avatar accounts.

Also they axed the Developer Incentives program effective in March and a rumor is brewing that dwell might someday (soon?) be impacted.

So Linden Labs are definitely taking steps to maintain or increase the value of $Linden and making it harder for $L farming to occur.

Since many of our group are interested in running crossover businesses we are of course very curious in how the economics of SL work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes your theory is correct, but there are definitely mitigating factors. For example, they recently eliminated referral fees for free (AKA basic) members (they used to give $1,000L), see here: <a href="http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=84713" rel="nofollow">http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=84713</a></p>
<p>So now the only referral fees you get paid on are new *paid* members, which is probably how it should have been to begin with anyway. Too easy to game the system with extra free avatar accounts.</p>
<p>Also they axed the Developer Incentives program effective in March and a rumor is brewing that dwell might someday (soon?) be impacted.</p>
<p>So Linden Labs are definitely taking steps to maintain or increase the value of $Linden and making it harder for $L farming to occur.</p>
<p>Since many of our group are interested in running crossover businesses we are of course very curious in how the economics of SL work.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Yardley</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Yardley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-609</guid>
		<description>TD: I take a pretty easygoing view of things when it comes to formatting - don&#039;t worry about it.  Many thanks for the link.  I will take a closer look later.

I am curious about the exchange rate increase since in theory giving away money for free weekly should be dropping, not increasing the rates.  Could be another factor countering this that I don&#039;t know about. Or maybe just an effect caused by a large transaction in a not yet completely liquid market?  (Actual investigation will have to wait until after work.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TD: I take a pretty easygoing view of things when it comes to formatting &#8211; don&#8217;t worry about it.  Many thanks for the link.  I will take a closer look later.</p>
<p>I am curious about the exchange rate increase since in theory giving away money for free weekly should be dropping, not increasing the rates.  Could be another factor countering this that I don&#8217;t know about. Or maybe just an effect caused by a large transaction in a not yet completely liquid market?  (Actual investigation will have to wait until after work.)</p>
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		<title>By: TD Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/01/31/second-life-is-like-shoving-pins-in-my-eyes/comment-page-1/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>TD Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=220#comment-608</guid>
		<description>Argh, sorry that my way too long link screwed up your blog formatting. That was really only meant for you, Greg, not the rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Argh, sorry that my way too long link screwed up your blog formatting. That was really only meant for you, Greg, not the rest.</p>
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