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	<title>Comments on: Closely guarding conversion data</title>
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	<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/08/15/closely-guarding-conversion-data/</link>
	<description>greg yardley on internet and mobile marketing</description>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/08/15/closely-guarding-conversion-data/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=260#comment-854</guid>
		<description>Peter,

I think PPC market share is mainly determined by inventory - i.e. dependent on search quality, brand and toolbar traffic.  I don&#039;t think MSN would make serious inroads if they somehow were more transparent.

I think this topic is one of those that the market-sensitive elites like the root markets guys (and myself) would tend to over-emphasize in importance.

The most successful online ad market of all time has never been CLOSE to transparent.  Google&#039;s gotten much more opaque over the last 2 years, and yet it completely DOMINATES the others.

That makes me think that this market / pricing transparency thing is over-rated...

Furthermore if MSN or Google did open up more, I think they would be innundated with more spammy ads than ever...  Basically Google&#039;s rules and choices do prevent a lot of irrelevant ads from showing up all the time.

Crazy as it sounds, I&#039;m sure Google really doesn&#039;t want to sell all possible ad space to marketers.  It would hurt their inventory generation machine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter,</p>
<p>I think PPC market share is mainly determined by inventory &#8211; i.e. dependent on search quality, brand and toolbar traffic.  I don&#8217;t think MSN would make serious inroads if they somehow were more transparent.</p>
<p>I think this topic is one of those that the market-sensitive elites like the root markets guys (and myself) would tend to over-emphasize in importance.</p>
<p>The most successful online ad market of all time has never been CLOSE to transparent.  Google&#8217;s gotten much more opaque over the last 2 years, and yet it completely DOMINATES the others.</p>
<p>That makes me think that this market / pricing transparency thing is over-rated&#8230;</p>
<p>Furthermore if MSN or Google did open up more, I think they would be innundated with more spammy ads than ever&#8230;  Basically Google&#8217;s rules and choices do prevent a lot of irrelevant ads from showing up all the time.</p>
<p>Crazy as it sounds, I&#8217;m sure Google really doesn&#8217;t want to sell all possible ad space to marketers.  It would hurt their inventory generation machine&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Niki Scevak</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/08/15/closely-guarding-conversion-data/comment-page-1/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>Niki Scevak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=260#comment-853</guid>
		<description>Greg, my guess would be that as the complexity of the yield equation increases, the more and more clouded the process becomes for the marketer.

Basically it&#039;s click-through * cpc, but the variables that contribute to click-through are increasing rapidly from lots of different data points and a data history that is growing larger (what the consumer has searched for, what ads they have responded to, where they visited in the adsense content network, what time of day it is etc.), such that transparency for marketers has been clouded and they are left to simply make sure they have a positive ROI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, my guess would be that as the complexity of the yield equation increases, the more and more clouded the process becomes for the marketer.</p>
<p>Basically it&#8217;s click-through * cpc, but the variables that contribute to click-through are increasing rapidly from lots of different data points and a data history that is growing larger (what the consumer has searched for, what ads they have responded to, where they visited in the adsense content network, what time of day it is etc.), such that transparency for marketers has been clouded and they are left to simply make sure they have a positive ROI.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Caputa</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/08/15/closely-guarding-conversion-data/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Caputa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=260#comment-852</guid>
		<description>Yahoo wasn&#039;t more open. They just didn&#039;t factor in conversion to what ads are served. Right?

They don&#039;t do this because they don&#039;t have to. If MSN were smart, they&#039;d do it. They certainly don&#039;t have margins to protect or enough ppc ad revenue to worry about profit yet. Their problem is share. If they wanted share and this is really a big problem they&#039;d make the margins of publishers and advertisers more transparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yahoo wasn&#8217;t more open. They just didn&#8217;t factor in conversion to what ads are served. Right?</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t do this because they don&#8217;t have to. If MSN were smart, they&#8217;d do it. They certainly don&#8217;t have margins to protect or enough ppc ad revenue to worry about profit yet. Their problem is share. If they wanted share and this is really a big problem they&#8217;d make the margins of publishers and advertisers more transparent.</p>
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		<title>By: John K</title>
		<link>http://yardley.ca/2006/08/15/closely-guarding-conversion-data/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>John K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://yardley.ca/merge/?p=260#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Fundamentally, they don&#039;t trust the market.  Probably with good reason.

A) At Google at least, they are making tons of money already and the problems they have aren&#039;t related to getting more buyers / sellers.

B) Yahoo had such a system and it pretty much lost - in terms of relevancy, overall profit and market share.  Of course, it wasn&#039;t totally open (i.e. it has a .10 min bid), but it was close.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fundamentally, they don&#8217;t trust the market.  Probably with good reason.</p>
<p>A) At Google at least, they are making tons of money already and the problems they have aren&#8217;t related to getting more buyers / sellers.</p>
<p>B) Yahoo had such a system and it pretty much lost &#8211; in terms of relevancy, overall profit and market share.  Of course, it wasn&#8217;t totally open (i.e. it has a .10 min bid), but it was close.</p>
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